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Bug #5633

Internal and external parts can be attached incorrectly (clipped) to service bay, causing rocket/Ship to fall apart

Added by rad1c over 8 years ago. Updated over 7 years ago.

Status:
Needs Clarification
Severity:
Normal
Assignee:
-
Category:
Parts
Target version:
-
Start date:
10/23/2015
% Done:

0%

Version:
Platform:
Windows
Expansion:
Language:
English (US)
Mod Related:
No
Votes:
Arrow u r green
Arrow d r red

Description

The rocket attached falls apart at the large reaction wheel / storage container, right under the crew pod.
Note: this happens randomly any time when and only when one switches view to the ship (the system "shakes" the ship for some reason and it either falls apart or not). If it stays together, the rocket flies, lands, etc flawlessly as intended.

Reproduction:
1. Load the rocket
2. Move to launch pad
If does not fall apart, either:
a) repeat the steps above
b) fly the rocket, switch away from it then back and repeat

In my experience, it falls apart every 2nd/3rd back and forth switching to the rocket.

bug demo: https://youtu.be/pV6bIgAMt1I
reason demo: https://youtu.be/yGCTML-4R7Y
see #5633#note-5

R19 Minmus v1 BUG!.craft (310 KB) R19 Minmus v1 BUG!.craft [email protected] rad1c, 10/23/2015 08:31 PM
KSP.log (199 KB) KSP.log The last entry should be the rocket falling apart at the launch pad rad1c, 10/24/2015 10:32 AM
rocket collides with itself.craft (21.1 KB) rocket collides with itself.craft [email protected] Kasuha, 10/24/2015 05:53 PM
screenshot186.png (1.77 MB) screenshot186.png rocket colliding with itself - on launchpad Kasuha, 10/24/2015 05:53 PM
screenshot185.png (2 MB) screenshot185.png rocket colliding with itself - in VAB Kasuha, 10/24/2015 05:54 PM
screenshot189.png (1.68 MB) screenshot189.png intersecting service bay and science jr - VAB Kasuha, 10/24/2015 06:01 PM
screenshot190.png (1.21 MB) screenshot190.png intersecting service bay and science jr - launchpad Kasuha, 10/24/2015 06:01 PM
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History

#1 Updated by rad1c over 8 years ago

Additional notes:
- My assumption as the reason of falling apart is either the items I stuffed into the storage box (maybe the way they were attached by the app?) or the reaction wheel is buggy (or the two combined?)

- If one opens/closes the storage doors the "shaking" effect can be seen (yet does not make the rocket fall apart / break in two, if it did not happen on switching to it)

#2 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Need More Info

Would you mind attaching the log for a game session where this happens? Further information on what else we would need, and how to find it can be found in our useful guide

#3 Updated by 6ooflames over 8 years ago

Did you clip any parts inside each other? On high part count the physics engine likes to go wild.

#4 Updated by rad1c over 8 years ago

Squelch wrote:

Would you mind attaching the log for a game session where this happens? Further information on what else we would need, and how to find it can be found in our useful guide

The guide you linked did not help but I found a .log file in KSP install folder, attached it. I hope you meant this one as no other .log files exist in install or appdata folders.
I also recorded a demo video showing the defect for a better understand: https://youtu.be/pV6bIgAMt1I
See video details section about events and time ranges, as well as annotations will pop up - but I recommend watching the full length (3:28)

I also found an issue while I was looking into my rocket design. Adding this here as it probably has something to do with the bug if not the main reason: https://youtu.be/yGCTML-4R7Y
Removing the science lab block completely from the storage box makes the rocket jiggling(???), however it did not fall apart out of 7 tries.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any additional info and I'll do my best to present it

(EDIT: I forgot to mention! I play the game via Steam /also purchased it via Steam\ and I'm not using any mods, also never did. I use and always used the game "as is", "out of the box" with any 3rd party code involved on any level)

#5 Updated by Kasuha over 8 years ago

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I tried it out.

The strong camera wobble after placing the rocket on launchpad is there, but it does not seem to be shaking the rocket. More likely it's result of how the game adjusts the camera towards center of mass of the rocket, potentially while it still adds parts to the equation.

However I found one peculiar thing about the ship. The Science Jr inside the service bay is not attached to one of the service bay's internal nodes. It is attached to the heat shield below the service bay. As such it might be causing collision of the rocket with itself resulting in joint failure. I noticed such issues occurring in certain cases after deploying the rocket on launchpad.

Attaching an example and screenshots of a different rocket that collides with itself, eventually leading to joint failures.

After further attempts there certainly seems to be similar problem between service bay and science jr.

#6 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

rad1c wrote:

The guide you linked did not help but I found a .log file in KSP install folder, attached it. I hope you meant this one as no other .log files exist in install or appdata folders.

Take a look under So whats important when looking at a bug? > Crash/Output logs. In your case it would be

d:\games\steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\KSP_Data\output_log.txt

I also recorded a demo video showing the defect for a better understand: https://youtu.be/pV6bIgAMt1I
See video details section about events and time ranges, as well as annotations will pop up - but I recommend watching the full length (3:28)

Thanks for the video, it is very helpful.

Kasuha wrote:

The strong camera wobble after placing the rocket on launchpad is there, but it does not seem to be shaking the rocket. More likely it's result of how the game adjusts the camera towards center of mass of the rocket, potentially while it still adds parts to the equation.

That sounds plausible.

However I found one peculiar thing about the ship. The Science Jr inside the service bay is not attached to one of the service bay's internal nodes. It is attached to the heat shield below the service bay. As such it might be causing collision of the rocket with itself resulting in joint failure. I noticed such issues occurring in certain cases after deploying the rocket on launchpad.

Attaching an example and screenshots of a different rocket that collides with itself, eventually leading to joint failures.

After further attempts there certainly seems to be similar problem between service bay and science jr.

Good reasoning. In this particular case, it may be that the science junior is attached to the third "Direct" node of the heat shield instead of the bottom of the service bay, or vice versa. Perhaps rad1c could also attach the craft file for examination?

Edit to add:

This sequence from the log seems to support this theory.

[LOG 12:03:50.312] [00:00:03]: Structural failure on linkage between Heat Shield (2.5m) and Service Bay (2.5m).
[LOG 12:03:50.393] [00:00:03]: Structural failure on linkage between SC-9001 Science Jr. and Heat Shield (2.5m).
[LOG 12:03:50.403] [00:00:03]: Structural failure on linkage between Rockomax Brand Decoupler and Heat Shield (2.5m).

The second entry shows that the science junior was attached to the heat shield and not the service bay, so therefore was clipped through the service bay.

A remedial workaround would be to make sure that the science bay is properly attached to the service bay, and then attach the heat shield to the service bay. There have been some other issues with the service bay collision mesh, and I will relate this to the existing issue for it, and forward it to the developers.

#7 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

  • Subject changed from Rocket/Ship falls apart randomly for no reason to Internal and external parts can be attached incorrectly (clipped) causing rocket/Ship to fall apart randomly for no reason
  • Status changed from Need More Info to Confirmed
  • Severity changed from Critical to Normal
  • % Done changed from 0 to 10

Duplicate posting error

#8 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

  • Subject changed from Internal and external parts can be attached incorrectly (clipped) causing rocket/Ship to fall apart randomly for no reason to Internal and external parts can be attached incorrectly (clipped) to service bay, causing rocket/Ship to fall apart

#10 Updated by rad1c over 8 years ago

Everything I have I attached. The log as well as the ship, also linked the recorded video. One is supporting your theory, the other is the 'effect' in action.
Thanks for cleaning up the defect and tuning it. I hope it will be fixed one day (even though I'm not assuming it soon looking at the large queue :)

Have a great day now ;)

#11 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Apologies for the oversight. I had a little mishap while replying causing a double post, and the vessel link was not showing.

#12 Updated by rad1c over 8 years ago

No worries! One last thing, if I may. Could you please extend the bug itself (yellow part) with the two youtube links I added? I'm not allowed doing this and in the comment block one's eye may not catch them if returns days/weeks from now to see details & fix the defect.
The links again:
bug demo: https://youtu.be/pV6bIgAMt1I
reason demo: https://youtu.be/yGCTML-4R7Y
Thanks!

#13 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

  • Description updated (diff)

Done.

#14 Updated by Porkjet over 8 years ago

  • Project changed from Kerbal Space Program to KSP Develop
  • Category deleted (Parts)

#15 Updated by Squelch over 8 years ago

  • Project changed from KSP Develop to Kerbal Space Program
  • Category set to Parts

#17 Updated by TriggerAu over 7 years ago

  • Status changed from Confirmed to Needs Clarification
  • % Done changed from 10 to 0

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