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Feedback #12975

Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer should not have moved

Added by Netrilix over 7 years ago. Updated over 7 years ago.

Status:
New
Severity:
Low
Assignee:
-
Category:
Gameplay
Target version:
-
Version:
Platform:
Windows
Expansion:
Language:
English (US)
Mod Related:
No
Votes:
Arrow u r green
Arrow d r red

Description

A couple of us protested this change when it was mentioned in #12871 , but the main purpose of #12871 had already been fixed, so it went unseen or unanswered.

The "Field Science" node used to contain the rover core, seat, two wheels, and the Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer. This was a nice little kit that fit the name of the node perfectly.

The reason given for moving it was that it belonged in the "science line", but that's exactly the opposite of good balance. Science being a line is not a good thing, because it eliminates any tough decisions about which nodes to unlock. You can go straight up that line and get all the science right away.

The way it was before, you had to weigh the options of unlocking "Advanced Exploration" (160) or "Precision Engineering" (160) depending on whether the AFSV or Accelerometer mattered to you more at 300 points. Now you would choose "Precision Engineering" every time because it's a prerequisite for both items. It's just plain too easy that way.

History

#1 Updated by Nebbie over 7 years ago

The stock tech tree is a mess in general. I do agree that the semantics of the tech node no longer work, though. "Advanced Science Tech" has a semantics issue too since it's almost entirely just ore drilling/processing tech alongside a seemingly thrown-in graviometer; it should've gotten renamed when Science Tech was renamed in light of the fact it was just scanning stuff.
Also, the tech node still has an icon showing the wheels that got moved out of it.

I think as far as science part unlocking balance, the variometer doesn't matter that much, it's only going to get you much science on Duna and Eve for the most part, while an MPL around Minmus provided with science from the surface will easily unlock the whole tech tree. I don't really think it's a big deal either way, the variometer isn't that impactful on science rushes and tech node decisions, and wouldn't be even if the MPL got nerfed.

Now, one thing that irks me a bit is that the variometer was moved up instead of the rover body. It's really just a rectangular prism version of an OKTO minus reaction wheels, and now we're in a situation where early rovers will be built via battery cylinders with an OKTO head. The tail end of the tech tree should be used for really powerful things that improve existing mission plans, not relatively inferior stuff that just has a more convenient shape for niche applications. This is right up there with decent ladders being things I need to spend science I got from the Mun on.

#2 Updated by Netrilix over 7 years ago

I disagree that AFSV is a minor upgrade. End-game, it's almost pointless, but when you're starting out, it's a 20 base point experiment for 32 biomes right at KSC. That's absolutely huge at the start of the game, and giving it the same prerequisite as the Seismic Accelerometer is a huge unbalance to early-game science.

I've looked into it more, though, and the problem isn't specifically AFSV. It's the "Precision Engineering" (160) node.

That single node:
- Unlocks a probe core that can do Prograde/Retrograde SAS
- Unlocks the next level of communication dishes (2.00G base)
- Is a direct prerequisite for the AFSV
- Is a direct prerequisite for the Seismic Accelerometer

That is just way too much for one 160 Science node to be responsible for. Fixing that single node would go a huge distance in balancing the tech tree.

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